Dr. Shigeo Ohta & Tyler Lebaron Discuss Hydrogen Benefits

A discussion about therapeutic hydrogen gas between Tyler W. LeBaron, Executive Director of the Molecular Hydrogen Foundation, and Dr. Shigeo Ohta, Nippon Medical School.

Video Transcript:
Welcome everybody we're having dr.
Oh to hear from Japan for Nippon Medical
University where he researched the
molecular hydrogen and here were with
the molecular hydrogen foundation which
I'm the executive director and we are a
science-based nonprofit that's focused
on advancing the research awareness and
education of hydrogen as a therapeutic
medical gas and we have the pioneering
researcher here dr. Rocha who is
responsible for publishing the 2007
nature medicine publication that showed
hydrogen has beneficial effects and
since then the research has grown quite
so dr. o2 a pleasure to have you here
with us today okay um yeah me too new
here so you you're you research there at
the Nippon Medical School and I know you
wish to retire your expertise is in the
mitochondria things perhaps you could
share with our viewers a little bit
about your background and how you got
involved in the hydrogen research okay
so as my background I spent 40 years for
the malcontent research especially on a
multiple medicine I found
mutant genes of mild conduct DNA that
cause mark on the disease so I was
interesting how mitochondria contribute
to our health and then we found my condo
generate reactive oxygen species that
damage our cells and body but our if
also we found
react oxen some of the Rebbe Thomas's
has a beneficial effect so it is so
difficult if we destroyed all the
obnoxious species is not so good our
soul I'm wondering whether the we can
treat reactive species that is my
background and then we found hydrogen
can remove some of the hydrophilic else
the obnoxious species such as hydroxyl
Africa and then developed so many might
so many hydrogen effect after was yeah
ok so you so your your expertise is in
the mitochondria you found the magic
conscious produced reactive oxygen
species which are very damaging to the
body but some of them are actually good
for us so we don't want to neutralize
all of them and so your your hope or
your goal is to find some way to to
neutralize only the bad free radicals
only the bad reactive species and then
you came across hydrogen yeah and and
you started to find that hey this is a
selective antioxidant it only a
scavengers the bad ones like drops
around ok but the story is not so simple
ok because hydrogen will regulate signal
transduction and also many gene
expression yeah I was gonna ask you
about yes because you know just by
saying hydrogen can scavenge hydroxyl
radicals we know this cannot explain all
the benefits of hydrogen yes that's
right I know you published some papers
in the scientific reports and and this
signal transduction and the changes in
gene expression yeah perhaps you can
talk a little bit about this ok so I
think in the in your space initial stage
I was interesting IQ to disease such as
cerebral infection or cardio
in faction and that time and so hydrogen
is effective in a short time tomato are
twenty minutes east but the food are
later we found drinking hydrogen water
is effective sometimes more effective
than inhalation of hydrogen gas so for
me it is curious and takes the Contra
effect was continued for a long time at
least one day or so so and also we found
hydrogen release so rapidly so even
without hydrogen the effect continued
for a long time so it is curious so I've
I look at effect single transaction and
gene expression that is my thinking okay
so so you started to see that hydrogen
can be effective in the acute phase due
to this may be a hydroxyl radicals
community but then you saw it's actually
effective like drinking - rich water in
a more of a chronic stage when all the
hydrogen gas is really gone and out of
the body ice it still has this residual
or beneficial effect so you think okay
maybe we're altering gene expression or
something and and that's what prompted
you to start the studies and signal
transduction okay and also I would say
that the at first I want to spend the
time to find the effect of hydrogen gas
at first okay but actually is the effect
of drinking hydrogen water is better
than inhibition of hydrogen gas in
animal experiment also you mean you want
to just see the effect of hydrogen gas
inhalation and then you later found that
actually drinking hydrogen rich water is
often more effective yes that's right
and say like well this is very strange
yeah yeah okay so I spent a lot of money
in folds like maker equipment for
hydrogen gas but it was in vain
I lost a lot of money for research and
so I spent a lot of time our phones and
research of hydrogen gas hydrogen water
so it for me and at a time it is well it
was very curious so when did you start
researching the hydrogen gas when did
you first come across this concept and
started actually doing the research okay
I must say that and the full research
the research for hydrogen gas and
hydrogen waters / other time but for the
publication we start the publication for
inhalation of hydrogen gas and there
later we published a paper on hydrogen
water but actually we performed the
expander at the same time so yes so
because I thought that our editor or the
Lybia feel more curious on the hydrogen
water so at first we published three
papers on the inhalation of hydrogen gas
and then start the publication on
hydrogen water that is my story so yeah
okay it is very is very curious let's
talk about this the hydrogen gas concept
because when you talk to other
scientists who have background and
biochemistry for biology for example we
understand hydrogen is rather
biologically inert if you will yes right
you would think it had have no effect so
it's very curious that this hydrogen
because hydrogen right it's nonpolar
it's neutral it's not an ion hmm so why
would hydrogen gas have an effect so my
question is how how have you been
received by the other scientific
community when you try to publish your
results or try to explain a hydrogen
this this medical effect so I think
since still it is difficult to explain
all of them but because I spend our 14
years for Mukunda research it is easy to
treat mitochondria and reactive oxygen
species so I could detect various kind
of reactor was species easily so it is
good choice good choice that it was good
choice to see the reactive oxygen
species after the treatment with a
hydrogen right right so if it is it was
very difficult to detect the reactor
work species I couldn't do it
okay yeah so only one day is sufficient
to detect the effect of hydrogen so
because of your expertise in
mitochondrial research and detecting
Ross you could easily show the UX of
hydrogen yes so even though you may not
have been able to explain it or even now
we can't really explain exactly what's
going on we clearly see the observations
yes yeah it would you agree that's Comus
a lot of pharmacology these days that a
lot of times we we have chemo
therapeutic agents then have a
beneficial or therapeutic effect but we
don't know the exact mechanism and how
it works so in some way that's kind of
similar to hydrogen that we don't know
all the exact intrinsic details of the
mechanism of how hydrogen works yeah
similarly there are many pharmaceuticals
and drugs that we don't know the exact
mechanism yes so and they so it is it
was very difficult to find the mechanism
so I was thinking for five years and I
thought one day I thought that is a free
radical the active oxygen free logical
chain reaction should be important
otherwise hydrogen is inert and inactive
the hydrogen she didn't not be effective
right right yeah al but I could not
exclude other possibilities
Jr yes this I think this is a one of the
one of the mechanism yeah I think this
is important point because when you look
at hydrogen gas for example if you drink
a hydrogen saturated water the
concentration at saturation is about 0.8
millimolar 1.6 ppm which is about 1.6
milligrams per liter and if you were to
drink a full liter of water that's can
then be diluted into the rest of the
body about 40 liters of water in the
human body so the concentration of
hydrogen is very small amount of
hydrogen race mile but I think it's it's
not so small okay both after the
drinking hydrogen water the consent to
read each about 10 micromolar yes okay
hydrogen is a very large so if we
consider the weight of hydrogen that is
a very small but if we consider the
Maura more than number of molecules it
is not so small I'm glad you brought
that up this is a critical point people
say hydrogen there's only one point six
milligrams of hydrogen in a saturated
and liter of water which oh this is not
very much but it's because it's so light
hi to the molar mass of hydrogen is only
2 grams per mole but vitamin C is about
a hundred and seventy-six grams per mole
so actually if you compare the amount of
molecules of hydrogen gas that are
saturated in one liter of water to the
amount of molecules of vitamin C in a
hundred milligrams of vitamin C you
actually find there are a lot more
molecules of hydrogen gas in one liter
that contains 1.6 ppm then there are
molecules of vitamin C in a hundred
milligram dose of vitamin C yes right it
actually is quite a bit right
very good point we have to look at the
the moles to moles of molecules to
molecules we can't consider the weight
so and as I told you that the hydrogen
constant to lead to 10 micromolar
yeah but tomorrow is not so it's not so
much that the cytokines in our body or
other or the other drugs some of them
are on the on the nano molar
yeah that's right and so it still has an
effect so we can still have an effect
even though people may say the
concentration may be low right now but
perhaps even more important than trying
to show that the concentration is is
equivalent to other things is the fact
that we have the observational studies
we have animal studies cell studies at
this at the similar concentration right
and and human studies showing these
beneficial effects mmm so going back to
the the early publication in Nature
Medicine right I just want to touch on
this a little bit more because their
science scientist would be rather
skeptical again about hydrogen scavenged
hydroxyl radicals because the rate
constants are quite low the amount of
hydrogen gas in the body relative to say
glutathione and rather nucleophilic you
know reducing agents is a lot lower but
this gene expression that you brought up
with the modifying the lipid propagation
yeah I know that this is the mechanism
to explain for example an anti obesity
effect it can increase fgf21 500-plus
growth factor 21 so that leads a lot of
benefits but doctors are perhaps you
could just explain a little bit more on
your study on how you were able to show
in a cell-free culture yeah how hydrogen
could actually with the 4-h any the
former jock seen an enol and and have
those changes to actually increase
things like PG c 1 alpha Naoki of 21
leading to this anti-obesity effect and
also and the everybody believe it's the
hydrogen in that and especially a lower
but I found that only one percent of
hydrogen yes it disturbed the
free-radical chain reaction so which is
which 1% is about is a little bit is it
similar to drinking yes the hot water so
that's an important comparison yes I'm
the one percent of a hydrogen gas and
lead about 1688 micro molar of micro
molar packaging so that is comparable
yes so and usually our hydrogen is inert
but during the critical chain reaction
even the lower concentration of hydrogen
disturb the reaction in cell-free system
and also in culture the system yeah
this is important because he's really
showing the actual mechanism in a
cell-free system taking a lipid some
basically some fats of the cell membrane
put them in a cell-free system and
showing that when you add hydrogen gas
to the to the system you actually
prevent some of the oxidation some of
the peroxidation cascade that occurs
because you start producing this this
molecules as a byproduct for hydroxy non
you know what what is the effective for
hydroxy Nani no no no hi Luke nominal
disturbs signal infos act
phosphorylation it is santak down but a
single transaction regulates
phosphorylation of various kind of
enzyme so and hydrogen Nana na Nana
regulate the phosphorylation of some
kindness on the other transcriptional
factors okay and and then this is up
leading to the fgf21 yeah and
and the anti-obesity effects and things
right this is because what happens is
for hydroxy nominal is this is this
by-product from oxidation and it
basically it forms add ducks or it
basically hugs proteins and says you're
not going anywhere
and prevents them from acting on the
genes and when you administer hydrogen
gas it prevents the increase of four
hydroxy nominal and that in turn leads
to the up regulation of these of these
genes or it kind of rescues their effect
so it can keep those levels high so this
litanies have another increase in PG c
one alpha
yeah what are some of the benefits of
having an increase in PG c one alpha
oh yeah PCC one alpha has a multiple
function so so hydrogen increase or
decrease of PG alpha the PDC one found
alpha then shows a lot of function so
that's why hydrogen has a multiple
function what are some of the functions
for example a PG one file regulator gene
energy metabolism and also increased
mitochondria right it's a marker
mitochondrial biogenesis so in other
words we have more mitochondria
mitochondria is the powerhouse of the
cell so by having more in PVC when alpha
where we're seeing an indicator of more
mantra cond Rhea so we have a better
power supply to our body so how does
this relate to maybe fatigue or to
various diseases or even exercise yeah
and so and if the hydrogen they increase
energy metal rings and that prevents
metabolic syndrome
okay preventing metabolic syndrome which
is like the obesity high cholesterol
high fat hypertension saw so many so so
many different functions because really
that is one of the you know as you sit
back as a scientist and you hear that
hydrogen is able to help with this
disease this disease this disease this
disease we're pretty much at about a
hundred and seventy different disease
models yes that's right hydrogen issue
as a fan it's very strange it's almost a
red flag something isn't right but but
you're saying here it's really not so
complicated because when you see that
hydrogen affects PTC one else yeah
that's right
and that another pathway the hydrogen
down regulation of in fact which it's a
Wonderbra a transcriptional factor in
this case down regulation okay for the
pcc one alpha hydrogen a very greatest
so okay times up regulator and sometimes
down range okay business this is a
critical point i want to get back to
this I want to talk about in fact a
little bit more um so as a transcription
factor like PG C 1 alpha that goes in
that basically they go a chess mr.
Patrick goes into the nucleus it binds
to the DNA and cause the DNA to make
more proteins and and cause these
different benefits what is the effective
in fact whenever imaginated what are the
consequences and and fathers contribute
regulation only inflammatory cytokines
ok inflammatory diseases the cytokine
cause they're like swelling or pain or
diseases so and at least I showed that
to pathways and for the information and
energy metabolism which is one infant
and the other PG C 1 alpha but the
hydrogen has more multiple functions
alright another yeah so okay so you bat
your point where you said sometimes
hydrogen can up regulate things and
sometimes how you can down I think this
is also very very curious very strange
it's like hydrogen has a mind of its own
it knows what to do yeah up regulates
the good stuff down regulates the bad
stuff but it's too small to have its own
brain right
oh yeah bring
so so do you see other things where
hydrogen is able to upregulate other
transcription factors or other and
Maximo tonton notice group showed
increase of gravity which is kind of a
hormone from stomach right that's the
doctor mommy notice she's also one of
her MA chief advisors she was a
researcher Rockefeller University and
and she's there at Kyushu University and
she found that oral consumption of
hydrant water induced gastric ghrelin
secretion so growling what where does
that come from come from stomach from
the stomach so if we drink how to do
water hydrogen in increased
concentration of the stomach easily we
have the grill and the grill and
secretion and what are some of the
benefits of having an increased amount
of ghrelin a growing reach to brain and
the protector of new not new to neuro
okay so it has neurological benefits as
well as I know some anti-inflammatory
effect actually so ghrelin is is
considered the hunger hormone so many of
people these days are familiar with the
intermittent fasting or the benefits of
fasting or mellorak restriction right
and perhaps some of those benefits of
this this caloric restriction are
mediated by increased gas Agrella
production so it's interesting because
it seems that hydrogen seems to mimic
some of the same effects is fasting some
of the same effects is quite addictive
you also published a paper in the
journal of obesity where you what that's
one worth of fgf21 right
can you explain some of some of those
effects and and some of the benefits
that you saw in that publication okay so
at first hydrogen involving
oxidative stress at first at first day
oxidative stress so but also hydrogen is
effective on energy metal rims right but
increasing PTC will have the more muggy
around at the time awakened to find
effect of pgc Wow okay so I've found a
phenomena for energy metabolic because
when we applied hydrogen water to DB DB
in mice and that cannot the mouse cannot
regulate the eating so that mutation
right the mice had a net mutation they
cannot regulate how much food they were
they were taken but the after drinking
hydrogen water for a long time and my
speak I'm sorry okay
and also we measure the energy
metabolism and that is a phenomena
it's not mechanical so I continue to
find a mechanism okay so so in that
publication you found this is the
phenomenon yeah that you're seeing
increases in fgf21 you see increase in
energy expenditure that same article
they showed that drinking hydrant water
had a similar effect to was at a 15 or
20 percent caloric restriction you know
in the in the animals right and I said I
gave a presentation and I and I showed
the animals that are in the the two mice
that are in there on the slide and I say
you know these two mice they were they
grew up together everything together
yeah but one trait hydrogen water and
one did not and and the facts are very
clear it's very surprising and then
later you did the studies to figure out
the mechanism here to explain this
phenomenon yeah so it's important to
find the meat engine because nobody
believes that effect varieties are
mechanisms right right we need that in
beat your data we need to understand you
know hydrogen as the what is the target
here where is it working at and that's
critical as well because when we want to
look at dosing protocols and different
diseases and for who hydrogen will be or
perhaps will not be effective we need to
understand those and be chill mechanisms
but these are animal studies that we
talked about here what are some of the
human studies that pumping rates some of
this oh it's NBC's point of it so I'm a
scientists I can't do by myself but I
can help Canadians and also we are
planning to hydrogen gas for patient
with several infection so we recently we
published a paper on several in function
and that is a random writes a green
and that was a recent publication just a
couple months ago yes yes okay not to go
yeah and and subject is 50/50 subjects
here double-blinded placebo-controlled
randomized all the actuary it's not
double prime it's not open label but 50
1000 I mean - that is a randomized but
it's not planned for doctors oh sure
yeah yeah there's a good reason for that
okay okay okay and it's not so bad
because each other the important is a
randomized study yeah and the even if
doctors know it is a hydrogen gas so
this is not but for the blood
examination and that is a random right
sure and the food's and effective for
trick and rehabilitation effect if that
is right so your summary and some of
them is a branch
some of them is not I see oh I mean that
the doctor notes which is receiver under
huh yeah so single blind
eunsung accidently so I would say it's
bright but not complete right right okay
so and it's not possible but as approved
medicine yeah yeah explain this so okay
yeah it's very I'm very angry
yeah go ahead so and and that is a
experiment that is
and food half of them that is a 25
patient in health hydrogen gas and
doctors applied approved medical medical
drug for 25 patient so that is a
comparison of the hydrogen gas and
approved medical Doc's yes we have an
approved medical drug that's being
compared head-to-head yeah with
inhalation of hydrogen gas to 2% yes for
the past three percent equation 3
percent hydrogen and remember hydrogen
is not flammable when it's below a four
point six years and concentration so
we're not running the risk of blowing up
the Japanese hospital or something ok so
and the result of the hydrogen gas is
much better than that when they pre
upload a medical miracle drug and as
judged by green color phenotype symptom
and effect of all rehabilitation all
over there
so it was surprised yeah that's a very
sits a very surprising effect and and
now they're doing a very large media
clinical trial the Japanese government
recently approved in December I believe
hydrogen inhalation as an official
medical procedure for most cardiac
arrest patients other that's another
story and that they are trying to apply
the hydrogen gas for 360 generation
hundred sixty phases are cardiac arrest
pastas I've seen because normally they
do a hypothermia yeah right so can you
explain what why they would do a
hypothermia or when the effects of this
hydrogen gas what the idea is
oh yeah because we performed several
animal experiments and we found the
hydrogen gas predictably right and the
you jury after the cardiac arrest
so now we have a heart attack yes yeah
it is difficult to protect a brain right
because you want to start the blood to
go back to the brain and you cause a lot
of damage so the hydrogen had only one
advantage I mean the hydrogen is a very
good aful survived patient but and
protect the brain to help to make the
patient survive longer oh yeah as well
as to protect the brain so yeah senator
I had a two pronged benefit you know how
that is just on the way but the doctor
the huge clinical studies the target of
a patient number it's 300 see yeah yeah
by 20 hospitals yeah and these are very
reputable Hospital Aquino University our
universities at kom ko ko University ah
yeah so that's me yeah and another story
that is acute disease okay and also we
are trying to get a good result by our
chronic disease for the rheumatism and
Parkinson disease and dementia and and
we and already there is the the
double-blind placebo-controlled
randomized study it was smaller maybe
twice you have some on rheumatoid
I know no 17 patients seventeenth okay
almost 2017 and now that they are trying
to make a study and targeted 186 186
that would be great but this study you
can go back and read it 2012 or 2013 to
the 14 around that time for this is a
couple of publications in the same area
with rheumatoid arthritis but it was
very powerful in fact some of the
subjects who are drinking - which water
went under remission of the disease that
really helped decrease the inflammation
and assuming
to protein another number of other
biomarkers of the disease yeah and the
potential for hydrogen water
it's a to improve tea scam how to say
come the oh the gum come yeah they're
like the gingivitis and and yeah okay
yeah so and our scientists and the
medical doctor performed a lot of study
yeah yeah so it's a packet of diseases
so much so many different diseases yeah
I've always said that most diseases have
two problems one of them is a redox
dysregulation and redox dysregulation
isn't is a term i often use to explain
that you can have free radicals remember
there's the good and there's bad you
need a balance and there's antioxidants
there's you can it you can actually get
too many antioxidants right so you want
to have a good balance between oxidation
and reduction and that oxidation
reduction is called redox and so this is
when you have a redox dysregulation that
sets up for diseases so there's a redox
dysregulation as well as a dis
regulation of inflammation because we
also need basal levels of inflammation
and if we have too much then we have all
these diseases if we don't have enough
then we're gonna get sick easy we're not
gonna heal we actually don't improve
better when we exercise so we need some
basil inflammation but if we have a
dysregulation then we get all these
diseases so we have two main root causes
a dysregulation in in the redox and
inflammation yeah and would you agree
hydrogen yes yes I completely agree with
you how did it appears to help both of
these things yeah it's kind of this you
know it's very curious when you when you
look at hydrogen from from the billions
of years ago yeah right and and I see
what you think about this this idea I've
been thinking for the for the past years
I presented a conference in Beijing
about the why of hi didn't have an
effect because we don't really know the
we don't worry all the primary targets
of hydrogen so we don't we don't know
what exactly is going on we do see that
it's working hmm but we don't know
definitely what but then I thought to
myself is there a potential explanation
of why would heighten have a beneficial
effect and it goes back to the
mitochondria you know which is your
expertise right okay so maybe we can
talk about this a little bit of you know
the hydrogenation the hydrogen's Elms
and and maybe some of that's that
relationship way back from the beginning
of the eukaryotes and the ProCare yeah I
thought they sell only still imagination
yes it's a limitation okay yeah and and
I'll see ya ancestor of mitochondria use
hydrogen as an energy source as an
energy source so they would actually
take hydrogen extract the electrons and
use that for their food yeah okay no no
I'm sorry
probably the hydrogen okay so we have
two things we have energy that
metabolise hydrogen and I know that
produced hydrogen Aki Aki Oh such kinda
of metal of bacteria
now that produces the metal for getting
energy by using hydrogen and co2 co2 can
be dissolved in a higher concentration
but it is difficult to capture hydrogen
but one of the small bacteria produce
hydrogen and then archaea capture
bacteria that produce hydrogen and that
the bacteria become mitochondria that is
my maybe it's in docent biology right
theory right where we have hydras being
produced and as the end product gets
produced we start to slow down
metabolism and so we have this other
battery and it comes along and or the
archaea right get that hydrogen gas
opens his mouth is able to consume the
hydrogen gas and now the Metallica can
continue going so in that case hydrogen
ism is a final electron receptor
and it's able to continue so there's
that interesting relationship going back
to the mantra country on you which we we
we have in our body that's the energy
source yes yes that and you know it's
also interesting because you life we
don't know exactly where like started
but a lot of the the theory in the
evidence suggests that life started deep
in the oceans in those deep sea
hydrothermal vents mmm and hydrogen gas
was being produced there and hydrogen
gas could have served as the first
energy source for life so we have the
first prokaryote that that used hydrogen
as an energy source and so now we have
prokaryotes does look like bacteria then
we have plant animals supplement called
eukaryotes right and it's interesting
there was an article published in 1999
in the journal of science that talked
about how hydrogen was the key to forge
eukaryotes out of ProCare oh yes that is
as the exact that he's are saying okay
it's very faster than the hydrogen that
has been involved even before that right
when the doing the Big Bang started hi
Jim is considered the father of the
elements you know it started everything
yeah and then now then life comes
hydrogen was what was the genesis of
life right and and dynasty is involved
in the evolution of life from that the
emergence of the eukaryotes from the
prokaryotes and it's always been there
and then what about our intestinal
bacteria hydrogen yes yes and the
membrane cells cannot produce hydrogen
the suit cannot erisa hydrogen as a
energy source about the intestinal
bacteria produce hydrogen and maybe
hydrogen from the intestinal bacteria is
effective but not so strong yeah and
someone compared the effect between
drinking hydrogen gas and the hydrogen
produced by a bacteria and effect of
drinking hydrogen water is much more
right right and back and hydrogen from
back theory yeah this is very yeah that
was dr. Ono yeah and with the practices
disease monoamine he's also one of our
mhf advisors but this is very curious if
we just go back quickly to the the fact
that we've always been exposed to
hydrogen from the very beginning you
know and then and then like you said on
our ourselves we cannot produce hydrogen
gas and our cells don't actually use
hydrogen gas as an energy source but
we've always been exposed to it from
from the very beginning then we
developed this symbiotic relationship
with our own intestinal flora and that
bacteria has continued to produce
hydrogen gas so it's always been present
and it has there's basal levels in our
blood and our breath and so it is
therapeutic there was a research article
from the Forsyth Institute in Boston
Massachusetts and University of Florida
where they did a gene knockout study and
they showed that hydrogen gas you know
produced from the back to from the
e.coli was therapeutic a woman from a
hepatic toxin or liver toxin but then we
just talked about here that that may be
hydrogen gas Brown drinking - drinking
water yeah it is more effective that's
right yeah now this is curious though
because when you look at how much
hydrogen gas is produced from bacteria
and we're talking about hydrogen gas
versus the amount of hydrogen gas that
brought the other back there produces
about 100 times or so yeah but in my
opinion that the important thing is a
change of the concentration of hydrogen
and from the hydrogen from bacteria the
concentration data are constant so that
is why you drink your hydrogen water it
still shows enough that this is a
critical and this is common in a lot of
signal modulating or more cell signal
modulators is the fact that if there's a
continuous pace of levels then we have a
habituation or attenuation of that
signal so there's always this hydrogen
in the body at constant exposure all the
time the level is pretty much all the
so everybody kind of gets used to that
our cells do and then when we drink
hydrant water or inhale hydrogen gas a
whole bunch really quickly then we get
this tangent right yeah and there's this
port side effect as well causes the
cells that the cell modulation to occur
and that's one of the ways that we can
explain the reason that drinking hydrant
water is more effective than just
getting it from the bacteria yes yes and
so I told you in the initial stage and
hydrogen water is much more effective
time inhalation of hydrogen gas and for
the chronic service I use box for
inhalation of a hydrogen gas and mice
live in a box
with the hydrogen gas okay so you have
the box connected to hydrogen gas and
about two to four percent our two
percent are having a okay so that mice
continuously in how hydrogenous at the
same concentration of hydrogen gas it's
24/7 yeah oma all the time all the time
all the time for example one month or
right right but every day it was just
always they're constantly exposed yeah
it at that time and that effect
disappear it disappeared yeah so I
change experiment to drink of hydrogen
water so we can compare the effect of
hydrogen water on the hydrogen gas at
the same time at the initial phase right
so I think we must have changed thinking
our paradigm now is this the study
absolutely that you also published and I
think 2008 with the ax pulley of protein
the knockout mice yeah and so somehow
this this gene mutation that develop
atherosclerosis very quickly and when
the mice Drake hydrogen rich water it
prevented the development Abascal
is this is this right yes that's right
to you so and and but when you found
with the inhalation that constant
continues to exposure in the youth maybe
you saw some marginal effect and at the
beginning in the initial stage and then
it kind of disappeared but by the
drinking hydron rich water yeah you you
saw throughout the study which would
make sense I guess because in your
drinking water
even though it's every day right
constantly drinking every day but it's
still intermittent exposure because you
drink it you know yeah once or a few
times a day let's talk about the
pharmacokinetics of hiding and then when
we drink hydrogen rich water about 500
milliliters you know what how long until
it actually gets into our blood and
things and it takes a very short time
and without that 10 to 20 minutes we
consume the hydrogen after drinking okay
so after about 10 or 20 minutes or so we
drink the hydrogen we start to see we
already see levels of peak level in the
area as well as on the breath I'm the
foot yes doctor on 21 30 minute or so
yeah and and and then how long does the
hydrogen stay in the body before it's
pretty much solid I don't know about 100
so so you can see the line it Peaks
around and dependent how much you how
much the dose you ingest but it can peak
anywhere between 5 to 2 20 minutes or so
it'll have a peak and then it's gonna go
back to baseline in about an hour
yeah and this would also help support
the idea that it has more to do with
modulating a signal transduction yeah
then it does as are handsome you know
you know scavenging a free-radical or
something right but this interesting
because hydrogen gas and modulating
signal transduction hydrogen is a gas
though I mean it's not a transcription
factor it's not a drug that does this
name how did if we compare this to other
gases hmm such as the nitric oxide right
this would be a fun that fun little
thing because nitric oxide is also a gas
when it was first thought that this this
I think
called in the theory releasing factor or
relaxing factor and it was suggested it
was a gas was doing this and the people
were laughed at right now they think
that no no gases can't do this yeah and
then later they found it was nitric
oxide it is a gas and it is having
something else what are some of your
thoughts on hydrogen being a single
modulator as a gas compared to other
signal modulator oh yeah so and other
gas is rather active not so stable like
nitric oxide is a free radical by a very
short half-life yeah so and hydrogen is
essentially in that it's not either
reactive with other component right yeah
so I think hydrogen can disturb the free
radical chain reaction yeah that is my
idea and also the moderation of free
radical chain reaction produce lipid
mediators yeah developing mediators
which may be automation LEM yes that's
right now this is it's interesting like
as you said cuz hydrogen because it's
just neutral it's nonpolar like this
versus nitric oxide it it is polar and
it's a free radical break short outline
and other gases like hydrogen sulfide
very nonpolar yeah and it as a single
modulator and then this carbon monoxide
also signal modulator a very very polar
as well but Hydra gasses is neutral and
nonpolar oh yeah it is very strange so I
guess technically speaking according to
the definitions of gas a signal
modulators hydrogen
cannot be considered a signal modulator
and technically because I think some of
the criteria for example it needs to be
produced by the actual mam million cells
right and hydrogen gas is not but yet it
still has this effect on single
scientific art explains refectory yeah
yeah oh
- energy metabolism increasing PTC 1
alpha mitochondrial biogenesis and the
fact that I'm going to tie this in to
exercise and performance and things and
what is what I want to do but to kind of
set the stage a little bit when we look
at exercise we produce important
radicals we're breathing more and so by
default we produce more free radicals
and these free radicals reactive oxygen
species have been shown to actually
mediate some of the benefits of exercise
they actually activate transcription
factors and causes benefits yeah and and
and some of the human studies have shown
that by taking high doses of
antioxidants and chronically during
strain can actually actually negate yeah
where a ball is the benefits of exercise
knee right here perhaps because it's
neutralizing those beneficial finit
articles so we talked about hydrogen
hydrogen is a selective antioxidant yeah
it only neutralized the bad one here and
it'll keep the good ones and it also has
that enhancing effect at enhancing
things like PG C 1 alpha so it makes a
lot of sense that hydrogen could be
great for for athletes for it for for
sports yeah I think okay I just recently
did a study a double-blind
placebo-controlled trial on on hydrogen
and athletes and I know you're doing
this as well but what are some of the
findings that you've seen and and that
we already published like the one on
elite soccer players an example what do
you write okay and we make the maximum
oxide a maximum oxygen consumption vo2
million yeah by bicycle and we compare
the before and after drinking hydrogen
water okay at first we asked bronchiole
to perform and biking ah
that's equal to bicycle to get a
Bayliner under we take a baseline and
after drinking and after one week a week
perform the same experiment and we
compare the difference and also we use a
glass of water and the principle water
did not change at all did not change the
baseline yeah but after the drink of
hydrogen and the maximum oxygen
consumption increase increase but to me
that's very surprising because I you
vo2 max is difficult to improve in fact
if you look at the elite athletes for
example they'll train for years and
their performance will continue to get
better and better but their vo2 max will
stay the same and that's because they
improve running economy for example or
different things you don't really
improve you to max so to suggest that we
are actually improving vo2 Max and in
this population because it may not work
so well for healthy populations that
don't have issues which which were we
discussed earlier but the fact that we
can change that to increase that is very
very powerful yeah a lot of all our talk
about the lactate or people call
incorrectly again yeah go ahead okay
another group and examined protracted
after the exercise yeah this elite
soccer players and also hydrogen
surprise the increase of lactate in
broth so so people people sometimes
don't understand the significance of
this they think oh yeah because now we
don't have the lactate and that causes
fatigue but we know that's not true
lactate actually prevents fatigue it
actually prevents acidosis and what
really happens is it's a correlation
when you start to get fatigue or tired
then you start to rely on glycolysis and
that's when you start producing the
lactate and what happens is the hydrogen
somehow maybe is able to help
mitochondrial function yeah I think so
yeah because an adversity is result of
crack crimes like Hollis's so after the
drink of hydrogen water some meta brains
change from tequila crisis office to
repeat fatty acid metabolism right which
kind of cooperates with your earlier
study which is increase in energy
expenditure and and and yeah it all it
all starts coming together and that's
the other thing I mentioned earlier that
it seems that hydrogen mimics the
benefits of fasting of chloric
restriction but it also seems that
hydrogen mimics the benefits of exercise
yes yes that's right
it is also curious stories yes and and
it is very strange because some of the
studies we actually see that hydrogen
kin transiently increase and free
radical production like superoxide in
the net mitochondria right and and then
and then we have the enhanced effect of
of the nrf2 factor could you explain a
little bit about the nrf2 hydrogens
effect on on nrf2 and the increase oh
yes yeah the you jury are okay the
stress increase enough to which is a one
of the transcription factor and
transcribes antioxidant enzymes right so
if the enough to is increase or activate
the function undulation but hydrogen and
decreased oxygen stress but increase
activity of enough to so that is your
body yeah it's almost a paradox right
yeah where hydrogen reducing agent it's
gonna reduce oxidative stress but at the
same time it can activate this an mr2
pathway and maybe it's via this
transient increase of superoxide
production we're not sure all the
mechanisms but they're being
investigated yeah but but that's a huge
because you know from from perhaps aging
or or different diseases are levels of
say glutathione or superoxide dismutase
glutathione peroxidase right
start to decrease an administration of
hydrogen can can get those levels back
yeah yeah yes but but this is this is
you know something else to consider
dr. hotel is we need to have a certain
level of glutathione if it goes low
that's bad but if we get too high mmm
the glutathione levels go too high that
could be a reductive stress it's so I
think you've also seen that hydrogen if
you administer hydrogen to a healthy
person or healthy and more hungry cell
that the glutathione levels are already
normal you don't see the increase in
with a sigh oh yeah in my mouth we know
in my opinion okay and hydrogen lead to
normal stage yeah but not increase you
drink a hydrogen water when the stress
decrease the tale of memory hydrogen
recover the memory ability but maybe
will not increase the memory ability
right right so that's so stress
so I've reviewed pretty much you know
there's nearly a thousand publications
now on hydrogen and I reviewed all of
these and I've seen the same thing that
hydrogen really helps to bring things
back to homeostasis it doesn't increase
things too much or or decrease things
it's not really powerful but has
multiple functions also we applied the
hydrogen water to DB DB mouth and DB DB
Mars PG she ran far increase but the
photon normal mice PG C 1 alpha did not
decrease no increase and not the
increase so there's no change so normal
abnormal one it's no effect
hydrogen water and this is this probably
helps to explain why like myself I you
know I exercise every day III lift
weights I trained on marathons I do
these different things and when I take
hydrogen I don't notice anything
oh yeah you are here
and I think a lot of people give this
game back but you know this is kind of
anecdotal but but I do hear so many
people that who are maybe you know in
their 40s 50s 60s and they take hydrogen
and then we port these dramatic effects
and I just think about that's up strong
placebo and that but but maybe it's
because they are so far out of
homeostasis and that heightened hasn't a
greater effect when you're further from
homeostasis but in here they're healthy
you you may not notice as much but the
fourth chronic disease it takes a long
time for example for dementia it takes
40 years to onset dementia and depend
and also the dementia depends on the
genetic time yeah so that in a specific
genetic type it is healthy but has a
cause in a body so fold the dementia
what the cancer was after sclerosis it
takes a long time to develop so that is
important or for the prevention okay so
that's my next question so let's say
that you have people who are healthy
yeah they don't have these diseases yeah
would it be advisable for them to to
perhaps try the hydrogen and use it to
perhaps prolong or prevent even this
disease that they may be genetically
inclined to have okay yeah at least in
animal experiment hydrogen has a much
more role in preventing so it's a better
preventive that have any chemicals
pretreatment of hydrogen water is much
more effective program proposed
treatment yeah that suggests hydrogen
Shantha good role in
right right so people who are health
conscious maybe it's a great idea to to
try the hydrogen so they can maybe have
some prevention you know but really
though we need more clinical data mmm I
mean nineteen is still in its infancy we
meet you can't make claim saying ohyes
is gonna do this and this and this we
have we're promising preliminary data
and some pretty neat human studies but
we need more data so the real question
is this we I my my opinion we have
enough data to suggest it is it has the
therapeutic potential so it is advisable
to try but but remember the the most
important is do no harm right so the
safety of hydrogen what well we've
already talked about hydrants rain
natural to our mod it's the most natural
thing we produce it by an intestinal
bacteria but what what do you think of
the safety of hydrogen even though I get
my questions even though there's maybe
not you know hundreds and hundreds of
clinical trials the last ten years and
everything to really show that how
hydrants effect and we have enough data
show it does have beneficial effect but
do we have enough data also showing that
it is safe that we can go ahead and
start taking hydrogen now yeah at police
we couldn't find any adverse effect
after drinking hydrogen water but still
we are afraid of the side effect of a
hydrogen water so we must be sensitive I
think that's a good way to put it right
we haven't found we're not saying there
are no side effects yeah we're saying we
have not found any side effects and we
we've done a lot of studies there really
is a lot of animal studies cell studies
quite a number of human studies with no
reports of adverse effects and so it
does seem to be very very safe and and
we also know it's natural from our
intestinal bacteria right we're exposed
to all the time every time we we we eat
our our diet of fiber for example again
more of the hydrogen gas and actually
the deep-sea diving right deep-sea
divers oh yeah see out here since the
1940s they've been Yahoo hydrogen at
literally millions of times higher
concentrations than what we used for for
medical use with with again no chronic
or toxic effect yeah that's right

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